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	<title>Comments on: Oaks at Mill Creek/Village Greens Properties Still Suck</title>
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		<title>By: Grey</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-45044</link>
		<dc:creator>Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-45044</guid>
		<description>Aubrey,
I agree.  As I said it is the actions of his former employers which even brought this issue to light.  Their handling of this situation despite being rupugnant is churlish and childish as well.  I would hope that Mr. Bruley is able to obtain the services of a good Civil Rights Attorney with a specialty in Firearms and Constitutional Law.  And that he is offered gainful employment at a business that will appreciate his foresight and willingness to serve his fellow citizens.

Grey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aubrey,<br />
I agree.  As I said it is the actions of his former employers which even brought this issue to light.  Their handling of this situation despite being rupugnant is churlish and childish as well.  I would hope that Mr. Bruley is able to obtain the services of a good Civil Rights Attorney with a specialty in Firearms and Constitutional Law.  And that he is offered gainful employment at a business that will appreciate his foresight and willingness to serve his fellow citizens.</p>
<p>Grey</p>
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		<title>By: Aubrey Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-45035</link>
		<dc:creator>Aubrey Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-45035</guid>
		<description>Grey,

I&#039;m not second guessing his actions, but I sense that people  think I am. I was simply pointing out a possible reason for the comment that Bitter highlighted.  But since then I saw another article that mentioned that he had medical training and worked in EMS.  So my original point doesn&#039;t really apply anymore, at least with regards to him.

GeorgeH,

That would seem to argue for more training, rather than trying to use a potentially dangerous technique without training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grey,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not second guessing his actions, but I sense that people  think I am. I was simply pointing out a possible reason for the comment that Bitter highlighted.  But since then I saw another article that mentioned that he had medical training and worked in EMS.  So my original point doesn&#8217;t really apply anymore, at least with regards to him.</p>
<p>GeorgeH,</p>
<p>That would seem to argue for more training, rather than trying to use a potentially dangerous technique without training.</p>
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		<title>By: Grey</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-45028</link>
		<dc:creator>Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-45028</guid>
		<description>Aubrey,

The new torniquet&#039;s based on the original Israeli design, have very good instructions which make them very self explanatory, printed directly on the wrapper of the torniquet.  The new tourniquets are designed to be used one handed for extreme situations, such as the one Mr. Bruley was in.  He did what he could with what he had, lets leave it at that and quit second guessing the man who was on the scene.  We don&#039;t know what was going on in his head nor do we know of the tactical situation he faced.  He did a good job with his limited knowledge and if his former employers hadn&#039;t tried to deflect any criticisms of themselves, this issue never would have been brought up.

Grey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aubrey,</p>
<p>The new torniquet&#8217;s based on the original Israeli design, have very good instructions which make them very self explanatory, printed directly on the wrapper of the torniquet.  The new tourniquets are designed to be used one handed for extreme situations, such as the one Mr. Bruley was in.  He did what he could with what he had, lets leave it at that and quit second guessing the man who was on the scene.  We don&#8217;t know what was going on in his head nor do we know of the tactical situation he faced.  He did a good job with his limited knowledge and if his former employers hadn&#8217;t tried to deflect any criticisms of themselves, this issue never would have been brought up.</p>
<p>Grey</p>
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		<title>By: GeorgeH</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-45026</link>
		<dc:creator>GeorgeH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-45026</guid>
		<description>When you don&#039;t have any real training, and that is the vast majority of us, the alternative to using a tourniquet is watching someone bleed out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you don&#8217;t have any real training, and that is the vast majority of us, the alternative to using a tourniquet is watching someone bleed out.</p>
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		<title>By: Aubrey Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-45024</link>
		<dc:creator>Aubrey Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-45024</guid>
		<description>It sounds like the training includes *proper* use of the tourniquet, which makes a big difference.

In general, outside the military, though, they&#039;re discouraged because most people don&#039;t have the needed training.  There are whole lot of ways to do them wrong, which is why current (non-military/civilian) training deemphasizes them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like the training includes *proper* use of the tourniquet, which makes a big difference.</p>
<p>In general, outside the military, though, they&#8217;re discouraged because most people don&#8217;t have the needed training.  There are whole lot of ways to do them wrong, which is why current (non-military/civilian) training deemphasizes them.</p>
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		<title>By: Grey</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-44991</link>
		<dc:creator>Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-44991</guid>
		<description>Aubrey, 
currrent US Armed Forces Medical doctrine uses the tourniquet quite liberally now to the point it is now issued to all medics, corpsmen, and any emergency aid worker.  There are discussions to make them general issue to front line troops after the training protocol is adopted.  First hand experience in Afghanistan and Iraq have shown that even with minor wounds and the speed of evac the tourniguet saves more lives than the possible damage to the circulatory system and tissue damage of years past.

Grey

U.S. Army 85-89 Medic (91A)
EMT-D Missouri 94-98
VFD Missouri 94-98</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aubrey,<br />
currrent US Armed Forces Medical doctrine uses the tourniquet quite liberally now to the point it is now issued to all medics, corpsmen, and any emergency aid worker.  There are discussions to make them general issue to front line troops after the training protocol is adopted.  First hand experience in Afghanistan and Iraq have shown that even with minor wounds and the speed of evac the tourniguet saves more lives than the possible damage to the circulatory system and tissue damage of years past.</p>
<p>Grey</p>
<p>U.S. Army 85-89 Medic (91A)<br />
EMT-D Missouri 94-98<br />
VFD Missouri 94-98</p>
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		<title>By: Dan B.</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-44947</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-44947</guid>
		<description>Great post here, and great comments, Aubrey. 

Bitter, you raise some excellent points about Colin not being on the clock at the time of the incident, as well as their alternatives to straight out termination. 

Aubrey, with my wife working at the main hospital here in Boise, she also agrees that direct pressure is the preferred approach, and a tourniquet should be a last resort. But -- as you pointed out -- Colin had no idea what else might happen. It would have been difficult to maintain direct pressure if the shooter appeared and Colin ended up dodging bullets. 

I was fortunate enough to interview Colin twice, and I also spoke with the victim, Tonnetta Lee. Overviews of my conversations with Colin can be found on my &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.workplace-excellence.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Workplace Excellence&lt;/a&gt; blog. 

Suffice it to say, though, that Bitter is right on the money in the above post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post here, and great comments, Aubrey. </p>
<p>Bitter, you raise some excellent points about Colin not being on the clock at the time of the incident, as well as their alternatives to straight out termination. </p>
<p>Aubrey, with my wife working at the main hospital here in Boise, she also agrees that direct pressure is the preferred approach, and a tourniquet should be a last resort. But &#8212; as you pointed out &#8212; Colin had no idea what else might happen. It would have been difficult to maintain direct pressure if the shooter appeared and Colin ended up dodging bullets. </p>
<p>I was fortunate enough to interview Colin twice, and I also spoke with the victim, Tonnetta Lee. Overviews of my conversations with Colin can be found on my <a href="http://www.workplace-excellence.com" rel="nofollow">Workplace Excellence</a> blog. </p>
<p>Suffice it to say, though, that Bitter is right on the money in the above post.</p>
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		<title>By: Aubrey Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-44929</link>
		<dc:creator>Aubrey Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-44929</guid>
		<description>Of course disaster is different from attack, and have different needs.  Conversely, if you&#039;re in a large-scale disaster, with a long-term wait for professional first-responders / medical care, then you should be even more wary of a tourniquet.  

Anyhow, I was using the CERT manual as an illustration of the preferred methods for controlling bleeding.  Tourniquets are not included in the participant manual and are left to the local agency to decide to include (or not).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course disaster is different from attack, and have different needs.  Conversely, if you&#8217;re in a large-scale disaster, with a long-term wait for professional first-responders / medical care, then you should be even more wary of a tourniquet.  </p>
<p>Anyhow, I was using the CERT manual as an illustration of the preferred methods for controlling bleeding.  Tourniquets are not included in the participant manual and are left to the local agency to decide to include (or not).</p>
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		<title>By: htom</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-44925</link>
		<dc:creator>htom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-44925</guid>
		<description>That section of the CERT manual doesn&#039;t mention tourniquet at all, which is a fault that should be corrected. Many people were taught that tourniquet was the proper first aid for severe arterial bleeding -- and my very limited understanding is that it still is, in some circumstances. The manual, as well, does not usefully describe using a band and object to produce pressure on a pressure point. 

Disaster, too, is different than attack. It may be prudent to use a tourniquet if it is possible that the attack may resume, resulting in either further wounds to the victim or the provider having to abandon victim care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That section of the CERT manual doesn&#8217;t mention tourniquet at all, which is a fault that should be corrected. Many people were taught that tourniquet was the proper first aid for severe arterial bleeding &#8212; and my very limited understanding is that it still is, in some circumstances. The manual, as well, does not usefully describe using a band and object to produce pressure on a pressure point. </p>
<p>Disaster, too, is different than attack. It may be prudent to use a tourniquet if it is possible that the attack may resume, resulting in either further wounds to the victim or the provider having to abandon victim care.</p>
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		<title>By: Aubrey Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-44903</link>
		<dc:creator>Aubrey Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-44903</guid>
		<description>Upon rereading the original article on the incident, it occurred to me that this could be one of the few cases where a tourniquet *might* be justified.

Most people think that getting shot in the leg is probably not life threatening.  But if the femoral artery is hit, the victim can bleed out very fast.

Still, I&#039;d try direct pressure and elevation and then use a pressure point before attempting a tourniquet.  There is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ehow.com/how_4911_treat-severe-bleeding.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pressure point&lt;/a&gt; at the groin where the femoral can be blocked by using pressure from the heel of the hand.  

This is also what we teach in CERT (I&#039;m an instructor for our local CERT).  Here&#039;s a link to the &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/downloads/training/PM-CERT-Unit3Rev4.doc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;participant&#039;s manual&lt;/a&gt; that has the section on controlling bleeding (from CERT Unit 3 - Disaster Medical Operations Part 1).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon rereading the original article on the incident, it occurred to me that this could be one of the few cases where a tourniquet *might* be justified.</p>
<p>Most people think that getting shot in the leg is probably not life threatening.  But if the femoral artery is hit, the victim can bleed out very fast.</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;d try direct pressure and elevation and then use a pressure point before attempting a tourniquet.  There is a <a href="http://www.ehow.com/how_4911_treat-severe-bleeding.html" rel="nofollow">pressure point</a> at the groin where the femoral can be blocked by using pressure from the heel of the hand.  </p>
<p>This is also what we teach in CERT (I&#8217;m an instructor for our local CERT).  Here&#8217;s a link to the <a href="https://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/downloads/training/PM-CERT-Unit3Rev4.doc" rel="nofollow">participant&#8217;s manual</a> that has the section on controlling bleeding (from CERT Unit 3 &#8211; Disaster Medical Operations Part 1).</p>
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		<title>By: Aubrey Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.thebitchgirls.us/2007/06/oaks-at-mill-creekvillage-greens-properties-still-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-44902</link>
		<dc:creator>Aubrey Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6997#comment-44902</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had basic first responder training, given by our local FD&#039;s chief of EMS, and he was adamant that the use of a tourniquet was only a last resort option.

Direct pressure, elevation, and pressure points are preferred.  Only if all of these fail, and only with great care, should you consider using a tourniquet.  He related one instance to us where a carpenter had cut off several fingers with a saw.  His friends, thinking they were helping, put a tourniquet on his arm.  He ended up losing most of the arm due to damage done by the tourniquet.  If they&#039;d given pressure and elevation time to work, it&#039;s likely he would still have his arm and hand (minus the fingers).

Once one is applied, it must not be removed except by trained medical personnel.  A tourniquet cuts off blood flow to the entire limb below where it&#039;s tied.  Loss of blood flow causes the cells to slowly die due to loss of oxygen.  As the cells die, they release various chemicals into the tissues and the blood becomes acidic.  When the tourniquet is released, that acidic blood flows through the body and can cause shock and/or death if not handled correctly.

Best not to use one unless you have no choice.  

Anyhow, you&#039;re correct that as a good samaritan he should have legal protection as he didn&#039;t seem to be operating out of malice.  And it doesn&#039;t excuse the actions of his management, either in firing him or attempting to smear him after the fact to cover their own sorry asses.  I just thought I&#039;d explain the issue with the tourniquet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had basic first responder training, given by our local FD&#8217;s chief of EMS, and he was adamant that the use of a tourniquet was only a last resort option.</p>
<p>Direct pressure, elevation, and pressure points are preferred.  Only if all of these fail, and only with great care, should you consider using a tourniquet.  He related one instance to us where a carpenter had cut off several fingers with a saw.  His friends, thinking they were helping, put a tourniquet on his arm.  He ended up losing most of the arm due to damage done by the tourniquet.  If they&#8217;d given pressure and elevation time to work, it&#8217;s likely he would still have his arm and hand (minus the fingers).</p>
<p>Once one is applied, it must not be removed except by trained medical personnel.  A tourniquet cuts off blood flow to the entire limb below where it&#8217;s tied.  Loss of blood flow causes the cells to slowly die due to loss of oxygen.  As the cells die, they release various chemicals into the tissues and the blood becomes acidic.  When the tourniquet is released, that acidic blood flows through the body and can cause shock and/or death if not handled correctly.</p>
<p>Best not to use one unless you have no choice.  </p>
<p>Anyhow, you&#8217;re correct that as a good samaritan he should have legal protection as he didn&#8217;t seem to be operating out of malice.  And it doesn&#8217;t excuse the actions of his management, either in firing him or attempting to smear him after the fact to cover their own sorry asses.  I just thought I&#8217;d explain the issue with the tourniquet.</p>
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